Dan Blue, longtime NC Democratic leader, is now the swing vote to watch (2025)

The longtime Senate Democratic leader who lost his leadership position this session is going his own way, voting with Republicans on four key bills and keeping unofficial power.

Sen. Dan Blue is now the swing voter in the Senate to watch.

After the 2024 election, Senate Democrats chose a new caucus leader — Sen. Sydney Batch — over longtime minority leader Blue. Both are lawyers, and both represent Wake County. Blue, 76, has served more than eight terms in the Senate, and 13 terms in the House, where he was the first Black House speaker. Batch, 46, has served two terms in the Senate as well as a term in the House.

But although he lost his position, Blue kept his large office and his chief of staff, and was the sole Democrat to escort Republican Senate leader Phil Berger to the well of the Senate during the opening day of session, a role he filled previously as minority leader.

Blue has stepped away from the partisan decision-making that precedes public debates. He has not been going to Senate Democratic Caucus meetings, nor has he been involved in planning the caucus’s strategy during debate, Blue said in an interview this week with The News & Observer.

And then there are his votes. Those started attracting notice early in this year’s session when Blue and two other Democrats supported a Republican-led bill that blames the high cost of health care on “government-mandated benefits.” Last week’s vote on a state budget and related bills heightened the intrigue.

As leader, Blue said, he couldn’t vote for past Republican state budgets. But Democrats who did vote for those budgets were given the chance to be part of further discussion.

“I just naturally voted for it because I thought debate should continue,” he said.

“Sen. Blue is a savvy statesman, a savvy politician who’s been in the game for a long time. I think that his actions are misguided, but he’s not confused about what he’s doing. You know, he’s pretty strategic,” said Sen. Val Applewhite, a Fayetteville Democrat.

‘Take an L’

Applewhite said in an interview with The N&O that she thinks Blue’s votes with Republicans, and his lack of involvement with most Democrats, is because he’s no longer in leadership. But she questioned that approach.

“If you’re in politics, you’ve got to be able to take an L, whether it’s at the ballot or whether it’s within (the legislature),” she said.

And Applewhite said Blue shouldn’t have been surprised that Senate Democrats wanted a new leader this legislative session.

“I still don’t understand how someone that has so much experience in leadership would be shocked that the overwhelming majority of our caucus had lost faith in him. Now, the vote wasn’t even close. It wasn’t even close,” Applewhite said.

Democrats never held a formal vote. But if the expected count held, Batch would have won. Instead, on the day the caucus would have voted, Blue bowed out.

Blue has been in politics for nearly 40 years. And as he rose to the height of his power, he was known for uniting his caucus.

Blue campaigned for House speaker as he was also running for his seat in the 1990 election, at a time when Democrats controlled the legislature and the governor did not have veto power. The previous year, a group of 20 Democrats had broken with their party and joined with Republicans to overthrow House Speaker Liston Ramsey and elect one of their own. Blue was able to bring members of both factions of the caucus into a coalition that supported him for speaker, The News & Observer reported at the time.

One of his supporters told The N&O for a 1990 profile that Blue — a Robeson County native and N.C. Central University alumnus — could relate to both an Eastern North Carolina farmer like him and a corporate executive in Research Triangle Park.

“Dan Blue can come as near holding an umbrella that will cover everybody in the state as any man I know,” Democratic Rep. Edward Bowen of Sampson County said.

Blue served as speaker from 1991 until 1995, when Republicans took over the chamber.

The caucus’s new leader

This legislative session, Democrats have run many more amendments to bills, trying to force Republicans to vote ideas up or down.

Applewhite said one of the reasons she supported Batch over Blue is leadership style. Batch pushes back more against Republicans than Blue did, Applewhite said.

For two elections in a row, North Carolina Senate Democrats have remained in a superminority, with little power to oppose Republicans, who get to decide what bills are passed.

In a 2022 interview with The N&O ahead of the election, then-leader Blue described the Senate Democratic Caucus as “overwhelmingly moderate.”

“I mean, there are some folks who might be more liberal than others. But for the most part, this is a moderate caucus,” Blue said then.

Batch said the caucus as a whole works well together, describing Democrats as a big tent party.

“We don’t have to vote in lockstep. And I do not run our caucus in an authoritarian manner,” she said in an interview this week with The N&O.

Blue absent from Senate Democratic Caucus meetings

Blue said he’s “still assessing” how Batch is leading Senate Democrats.

“It’s not my job to critique Sydney. As a matter of fact, I appointed her my senior deputy because I thought she had some talent and delegated to her primary responsibility for monitoring legislation, developing a strategy and all of that over the last two years,” Blue said.

“That’s what she was authorized to do, and she decided she wanted to do it on her own. So, that’s what’s happening,” Blue said.

Unlike other Democratic senators, including those who voted with him for the budget, Blue has not been going to caucus meetings.

“I want them to be able to run the caucus however they want to,” Blue said, “and if they think that a certain technique and tactic is more effective, who am I to say that it’s not?”

Blue explains his votes

Blue voted with Republicans on the Senate budget and two bills that ended up in that budget, the DAVE Act and a repeal of certificate of need rules for hospitals. The DAVE Act gives more money and authority to Republican State Auditor Dave Boliek, who Republicans have tasked with looking for more ways to be efficient, like the Trump White House has done at the federal level with mass layoffs.

Blue voted in favor of the budget after his amendment to increase the number of prosecutors for Wake County was accepted by Republicans and passed unanimously. His was the only Democratic amendment, out of more than two dozen, to pass.

“We are elected in individual districts, and our duty is to advocate for those districts and to not just get resources, but enact laws that benefit the district,” Blue said.

Blue said that he doesn’t want a total repeal of certificate of need, but voted for it to be part of ongoing conversations about it.

As for Blue’s vote to give new powers to the Republican auditor: “The DAVE Act is pretty simple, to me, because I believe in effectiveness and efficiency of government programs. And in fact, what we have in that act given the auditor the power to do, is do performance audits,” Blue told The N&O.

The DAVE Act sponsor is Berger, the most powerful politician in the General Assembly and arguably in North Carolina.

Power dynamics in the Senate

Berger’s top lieutenant is Sen. Bill Rabon, the powerful Rules Committee chair, who decides what bills come to the floor for a vote. Rabon is also the senator who assigns offices, and who made the decision to let Blue keep his office rather than turning it over to Batch, the new minority leader. She has a different office, of the same size, in another part of the Legislative Building.

Blue also kept his chief of staff, Fred Aikens. Berger controls staff allocations.

Blue said he and Rabon have been friends for a long time, as both are from Eastern North Carolina and knew each other before working together in the Senate.

Berger and Blue have also had a longtime, cordial relationship. Blue said he was informed by the Senate clerk that he was chosen by Berger as Berger’s Democratic escort, not new leader Batch, in the formal opening day ceremony. Blue dismissed it as “no big deal to me” that he escorted Berger this year, when he isn’t minority leader.

“I think that folk are making a big deal out of something that matters very little, and everything is a grievance, rather than seeing how the process works,” Blue said.

On the Senate floor, which senators talk to each other is as significant in the minutes before session begins as it is during debate. The conversations show where the alliances are, and where they might form. The seating in the Senate is also chosen by the majority party, and is generally based on seniority. Batch sits in Blue’s former seat, and Blue was moved across the aisle to a different row of Democrats.

On Blue’s row are the Democratic senators who also voted for the Republican-written budget: Sen. Paul Lowe, Sen. Gladys Robinson and Sen. Joyce Waddell.

They’re not a consistent voting bloc, at least not yet. Lowe, Robinson and Blue all voted for the bill meant to curb health mandates, with Lowe and Blue sponsoring it. But Blue was the only Democrat to vote for the DAVE Act, and on certificate of need legislation, it was Blue and Sen. Julie Mayfield.

“I point out that the four Democrats who voted for this budget were the four most senior members in the caucus,” Blue said.

Blue’s new seat is the former seat of Senate Democratic Whip Jay Chaudhuri, who was reelected by the caucus to his position. Chaudhuri was moved further away. Batch was not able to control four office assignments and seating, including for Blue.

Budget vote

Over the course of more than five hours of debate on April 16, Democrats proposed and Republicans rejected more than two dozen amendments to the budget.

Democrats criticized Republicans for, among other things, not investing enough in teachers and public schools, cutting programs and jobs from state government, and putting money that they said could be used for more urgent needs into the state’s rainy day fund after it was used to allocate Helene relief.

Lowe, Waddell and Robinson told The N&O they hope to make changes to the spending plan in future negotiations.

One of those changes they want to make is to preserve the Office of Historically Underutilized Businesses, a division of state government that helps minority-owned businesses secure state contracts, and would be eliminated under the budget as it stands right now. Another cut they want to prevent is ending the Innocence Inquiry Commission, which was established in 2006 to investigate wrongful convictions. The commission has reviewed over 3,500 claims of innocence and held 19 hearings in that time, exonerating 16 individuals.

Other issues the Democrats hope to address include securing a cost-of-living adjustment for retirees and raising the proposed salary increases for teachers and state workers. The Senate budget did not include a retiree raise.

Asked if he was confident Republicans would be open to talking about the concerns he and other Democrats have expressed, Lowe told The N&O last week: “We’ve got to get in the room. Some of us have to be in the room. We can’t all stand outside the room and holler.”

Blue told The N&O that Lowe “may have had it right. What do you do, without adopting a strategy on engaging on multiple fronts, as you are tackling this issue? That everybody ought to go, just yell and holler? I mean, if that’s what the caucus chooses to do, they can certainly pursue that strategy.”

“But at the end of the day, people elect us to get results, whether we’re in the majority or the minority, and the fact of the matter is that our system of government was mostly predicated on having discussions between people with opposite viewpoints,” Blue said. “Winning what you could, and when you couldn’t win all you wanted to, all you needed, you come back the next day and keep working on it. That’s what the art of compromise is all about.”

In a follow-up interview this week, Lowe said he hopes Democrats can save the innocence commission and the HUB office from being eliminated. He said that won’t happen unless Democrats are involved in budget negotiations.

“You can’t have those conversations realistically if you’re not in the room,” Lowe said. “You know, there’s an old saying that if you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu.”

Robinson, who questioned the elimination of the HUB office in committee, has spoken with multiple Republicans about the office’s importance and potentially saving it from being cut. In addition to talking about it with Sen. Carl Ford, Robinson told The N&O this week she’s spoken about it with Sen. Brent Jackson, a top budget writer, as well.

Based on those conversations, Robinson said she’s confident Republicans will agree to “some changes” she and other Democrats advocate for.

A former member of the UNC System’s Board of Governors, Robinson said she and other Democrats have been pushing for more funding for historically Black colleges and universities for years, and said that’s an area where Republicans have been receptive.

Robinson highlighted the push for more funds for North Carolina A&T State University in particular as being “very successful.” The budget includes funding for other HBCUs that have been left behind in past years, she said.

When it comes to considering other legislation Republicans advance this year, Robinson said she will vote her conscience and what “makes sense” for her district.

Waddell, meanwhile, was also optimistic about budget talks, telling The N&O last week: “This is not the end, this is just the beginning. There’s plenty room for changes, and we expect to see changes, and this gives us an opportunity to discuss, to negotiate, and to make a difference.”

Batch told The N&O she doesn’t “run our caucus like a dictatorship. I believe that people have the right to, of course, vote the way they need to, for what’s best for their district, and I don’t demand blind loyalty.”

“But with that being said, I have a hard time understanding why anyone, Republican or Democrat, would vote for this current budget, given that it eliminates almost 800 state jobs, the HUB office, which we all know supports minority and women owned businesses that are key employers in our state, eliminates the food bank funding and that, of course, care for our most vulnerable. And then, of course, as another insult from a bill that already passed the session, enshrines a North Carolina version of Elon Musk’s DOGE,” Batch said, referring to the DAVE Act.

A new faction of swing Democrats?

Two years ago, it was in the House where Republicans were able to win support from a small group of swing-voting Democrats on a number of bills, even after they secured a supermajority capable of overriding then-Gov. Roy Cooper’s vetoes once Democratic Rep. Tricia Cotham decided to switch parties.

Tensions within the party over the swing Democrats voting for the GOP’s budget bills and other legislation led to youth leaders of the party endorsing primary challengers who sought to unseat two incumbents, Rep. Michael Wray of Northampton County, who was defeated, and Rep. Cecil Brockman of Guilford County, who narrowly survived and went on to win reelection in November.

What’s different about the Senate is that Republicans already have total control, so they don’t need a Democrat to vote with them to get their way.

But it’s not the first time swing voting has proven controversial in the Senate. Applewhite won her first election to the Senate after defeating a Democrat, Sen. Kirk deViere, who sometimes sided with Republicans. She had help from Cooper, who made the rare move of intervening in a Democratic primary.

Applewhite said she is disappointed that Blue is impacting the “greater good” of what she believes is best for Democrats and the state.

“It’s bigger than any one person. And the fact that we are already operating in the minority, 30 Republicans and 20 Democrats, and now we have a quarter of our caucus peeled off by Blue. That presents an even greater challenge, but under Sen. Batch’s leadership, we’re all taking on additional roles, because failure is not an option,” Applewhite said.

Lowe, meanwhile, pushed back on the notion that Blue had led any Democrats “in another direction” this session.

“I resent that because I think that we all have our own minds and thoughts and experiences we bring to bear as we try to do the work of legislation,” he said.

Applewhite said Waddell’s budget vote was “a one-off” and that Waddell told her the budget included additional assistant district attorneys for her district.

Lowe and Robinson were among strong supporters of Blue returning as leader, Applewhite said, while other Democrats who initially wanted Blue to remain leader have not voted with Republicans.

“I would expect that the three of them (Blue, Lowe and Robinson) be a voting bloc. What will be interesting is, if the governor vetoes anything,” Applewhite said.

Would Blue vote to override a Gov. Stein veto?

The N&O asked Blue if he would override a veto from Stein.

“That’s very speculative,” he said. “If I like a good amount of the budget, I think Josh will like a good amount of it, too. And so then, you know, we’ll have the discussion. I’m very supportive of Josh as our governor. I think that he’s having success so far, and I’m as proud as I can be of the success that he’s having.

“But at the end of the day, we are separate branches of government. Legislators have a specific role to play in this lawmaking process. And you know, we’re supposed to do our best whenever we get it to shape it more to our liking,” Blue said.

Blue noted that he “led the state as a speaker when the governor didn’t have veto power, which means that you had to be engaged all the time in what the discussions were about budget matters.”

Blue also said that “you’re never going to get 100% of what you want in a budget. But I’m not going to, I don’t think, at the end of the day, support a budget that I only like 10% of, and don’t like 90% of, and you have no way of knowing what that looks like until it’s finally done. And you won’t know until the governor tells you what his appetite for vetoing a budget might be.”

Blue said as leader, Senate Democrats sustained Cooper’s vetoes because they felt Cooper had raised valid concerns.

“I don’t know what Josh’s appetite is right now for vetoing even the budget that passed the Senate, but he clearly has opportunities to raise more concerns ... And so given that we’ve caused some changes in it up to this point, it makes his task less difficult.”

Batch said she would “encourage Gov. Stein and his team to continue to have ongoing conversations with Sen. Blue and I’ll have conversations, with our caucus as well, and hope that we are able to come together and deliver a budget deserving of North Carolinians.”

Blue’s future

Blue said “there is a great probability” that he’ll run for reelection.

“I don’t know why I shouldn’t. I like what I’m doing. I’m doing my best to serve my constituents, and will continue to do that,” he said.

Applewhite hopes Blue comes back to meetings.

“No one’s ever questioned his value, that he could help us. We just didn’t want him in the leadership role. Get yourself together, come back in the caucus and say, ‘Guys, you know that one was a gut punch, but it’s bigger than me, let’s go.’ I’d be like, ‘Leader Blue, you are the man. I’ve got lunch for you.’”

Applewhite went on to say that she respects his legacy, but expects more from someone who has been groundbreaking in his leadership, from the House to the Senate.

“And I hope that one day Dan and I can sit down and I can say, ‘Dan, you just weren’t listening. You were not listening.’”

Blue said that while he hasn’t been going to caucus meetings, that doesn’t mean he won’t come back.

“I assume that I’m welcome. But going through how you approach enacting a bill, how you approach making the debate and stuff — that’s stuff that I’ve had almost 40 years experience of doing. So I don’t need to learn that again,” Blue said. He said he would answer questions and share his experiences if asked.

“But I’m not going to force it on them, because I want them to have the liberty to run the caucus the way they have chosen to run it, with different ideas about leadership,” Blue said.

Batch said as of Wednesday, Senate Democrats had not met since the budget vote. Lawmakers return to Raleigh on Monday after a weeklong break.

This story was originally published April 25, 2025 at 1:25 PM.